Curse

salja Wachi · Jun 24, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

Either you're taking the piss, or it's unbelievable how you even MADE it to UW with an AL of 30. 30 is starting level armor. To be able to even take two blows from an ataxe, you'd need 80+20 armor, and then preferably with some buffs. You're level 20 and still have AL 30 / 60 armor?

Any armor under 60 means the monsters do EXTRA damage against you.

Get better gear. Then try again.

Creston

first of all 30 is not starter level armor.

second of all nothing less than max armor should be worn in UW. or FoW for that matter. nice waste of 1k gold

Creston · Jun 24, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

first of all 30 is not starter level armor.

For a warrior it is.

Creston

Deathlord · Jun 24, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

You know that enemies very often ignore the fighters and immediately go for the casters?

But actually this thread is not about me being a "stupid player"! It is about the damage! How is that possible?

Not a stupid player, just ignorant.
You've replied three times but still never bothered to look up monk skills. First of all, if you tried to take on a shadow mino (That's what i call em, they look like shadow minos >_>) you really should be a warrior. Just because you ran up and took 512 damage doesn't mean a organized party that actually knows what to do will die. First of all, a warrior is probably using glad or some other 80+20 which is 100 armor, this person wouldn't take past 150 dmg. Add a monk with something like life bond or life barrier, that's -50% of the damage, therefore no more than 75%. You can also use protective spirit in occasions which would make it so nothing can do 10% more of you're hp, this alone can save you're life. Unless you have 5120 HP then you won't be taking 512 dmg anymore. Reversal of fortune can take the hit, negate the damage, and add the health for you. Unless you want to read more of my eye-sore paragraphs, I suggest you actually try looking around rather than complaining on how it's impossible.

Tutompop · Jun 24, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Adding my two cents for underworld progression. The warrior wall is a tried and true tactic that works well for the entirety of the UW trip. However, you might be wondering how a 5 man smite group makes it through the UW without a warrior wall.

The usual group composition is 1 warrior 2 elementalists (aoe nukers) and 2 monks. One protection monk is nice but the only spell that is a must have is protective spirit, this spell gurantees that the warrior will be able to take 10 hits before death as opposed to the 2 or 3 hit kills an aataxe is capable of. Two healers can be used provided one of them or both are making sure protective spirit is on the warrior at all times when engaging.

Now we come to aggro management, you might be wondering how one warrior keeps the aataxe bottled up without losing aggro. This is achieved by the whole team knowing when and how to engage mobs. Spirit the warrior and have him walk up to the aataxe and aggro by getting within range. At this point all other members must make sure that the warrior is not within their own aggro bubble. If the warrior is within your aggro bubble that means the aataxe will be too and will break off and attack the less armored members of your party. Fortunately, you have protective spirit available from your monks. Ability to react will differ from player to player but a quick monk can throw protective spirit on the squishy who will suddenly be able to take 10 hits before dying and give the healers the time they need to heal until the aataxe can be killed. This is not an ideal situation but is far more preferable than a dead ele/monk.

All spells max range can reach outside of the respective casters aggro bubble thus enabling said warrior to keep all aataxe on him. With two healers + protective spirit and the warrior set up for defense, it is easy to maintain aggro for the duration the elementalists need to kill the aataxe. If energy becomes a problem for you throw essence bond on the warrior for added energy.

This is not to say this is the best tactic or even a valid tactic for anything more than aataxe/grasping darkness/smite crawlers/coldfires as these mobs can be controlled with this tactic. Further UW mobs would require a more fleshed out party. However, this little bit of information may give you an idea of how the UW is managed.

Porkchop Sandwhiches · Jun 24, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

I know that I get more damage with an AL below 60. If the game mechanics guide is correct, I would get 168 % damage! Which means with an AL of 60 he would have dealt 307 damage! How is that possible?

Because they're level 29 mobs if I recall correctly?

dansamy · Jun 24, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Don't ever let any part of your aggro circle touch the warrior while he is drawing the aggro of the aatxe. If you do, they will "notice" you and your low armor level and attack you instead of the warrior. AFTER the warrior has their aggro, you start casting. Also, don't go into UW/Fissure again until you have a full set of the basic maxed armor. You can get it from the desert collectors if you can't afford to buy it.

Xoduz · Jun 24, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Boiling down this thread...

Ward against Melee, Blind, Denfensive Stances, Aegis, Blurred Vision ... those will all help you. Raising your armor to the most you can, also a very good idea. Making a melee wall, another good idea.

But the truth to making it through UW is actually Protective Spirit. A lvl 20 with around 500 hp will only be able to be hit for 50 dmg, which easily supportable by a healer.

Pretty simple.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 24, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porkchop Sandwhiches

Because they're level 29 mobs if I recall correctly?

Outside the underworld you deal with lvl 28 enemies that deal far less damage!

Red Locust · Jun 24, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Yes the Aataxes deal tons of damage, and ward vs. melee + aegis are not enough to protect against them. Protection monks with protective spirit and reversal of fortune spam are the best option in UW/FoW.

Kishin · Jun 24, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Outside the underworld you deal with lvl 28 enemies that deal far less damage!

Wear better armor. End of story. Aatxe's are meant to do a freakish amount of damage, that's their challenge. Don't whine and try to divert attention from the fact you went into Underworld badly underequipped and expected better. Your lack of preparedness resulted in your death.

BladeX3I · Jun 24, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Thank you guys for informing people about UW. I get really frusterated when joining a UW team and this happens....

monk.. - lookin for 2nd monk for UW
me - I'll join you
me - I'm a protection monk
monk - YOU DON'T HEAL???
me - I protect
Monk - protection is stupid we need healers

This happens way too often. People need to think outside the box.

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 24, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Try going in with a full trapper group - no monks.

You will see how easy it is.

Fire Childe · Jun 24, 2005, 11:33 PM // 23:33

i consider that a good thing, being kicked from a group that quite clearly knows nothing about what they are dealing with. they will wipe early. and you save yourself the hassle of wasting 10 minutes (if that) with a group thats going nowhere.

aatxes arent that hard if you think about the encounter logically. they spike alot of melee damage but are subject to all the weaknesses that come with physical melee attacks and spiking damage. any skill that limits the amount of damage you take can massively reduce that spike. off the top of my head, protective spirit and protective bond. if you use protective bond you need to find some way for the monk that maintains the enchantment to get energy back. if you run alot of enchants you can do this with blessed signet.

what damage that does get through can be mostly negated by heal seeding the target.

aatxes can be blinded, blocked and evaded. you can blind them with throw dirt then spam evasion (mesmer's distortion is a very good skill for spammable 75% evasion). combination of blindness and evasion and as long as you can keep evading and the condition holds you will never get hit.

a combination of blinding/evading and protection on your target guarantees you that you will be living at least as long as the protective enchants on you.

additionally, you can exploit the way creatures target you by setting up a pull properly so that only 1 player ever gets attacked - the protected target. there are numerous ways to do this, either via corner blocking or sending a warrior tank out in front of the group, letting them take all the aggro then moving up and killing. this sometimes requires a bit of planning but its nothing too taxing in my experience. forcing aatxes to attack your single target gives you alot of time in which you can rain AoE down them or let your casters take them out at range.

since aatxes come in 1s or in pairs at most, they are very manageable provided you force them to attack your protected target.

if you dont have any evasion or protection available in your group then its time for your team to rebuild and get some. its not likely you party will be able to outheal the rate of damage you take from a pair of bullies without some kind of damage limitation.

it doesnt require alot of skill or anything - it just requires you to put a little thought into it.

Porkchop Sandwhiches · Jun 25, 2005, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeX3I

Thank you guys for informing people about UW. I get really frusterated when joining a UW team and this happens....

monk.. - lookin for 2nd monk for UW
me - I'll join you
me - I'm a protection monk
monk - YOU DON'T HEAL???
me - I protect
Monk - protection is stupid we need healers

This happens way too often. People need to think outside the box.

lol, silly people. A healing and a protection monk together are awesome.

unclepodger · Jun 25, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

I can't believe how this guy keeps on asking "How can this be?", "This is impossible!!"
Listen bud, this is a game, not real life. Bladed Aataxes don't follow certain real life rules, like several rules of physics for example. They follow Arena.nets rules. Which means arena.net makes makes them however they want. Its called designing a game. Thats how its possible. If arena.net wants them to have 5000 dmg, they have 5000 dmg. Is that so hard for you to understand?

Tellani Artini · Jun 25, 2005, 02:01 AM // 02:01

If you cripple an ataxe, he will often not go out of his way to attack a caster when a warrior is closer. They tend to follow the nearest target very strictly when snared. Hey, maybe illusion mesmers are good for something?

Fantras · Jun 25, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Do some more experiments, with some better armor. The damage they do, especially with damage reducing enchantments, is certainly healable. At least by me.

nyamamoto · Jun 25, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

the loot is pretty hot on our 3 person smite runs.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 25, 2005, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclepodger

I can't believe how this guy keeps on asking "How can this be?", "This is impossible!!"
Listen bud, this is a game, not real life. Bladed Aataxes don't follow certain real life rules, like several rules of physics for example. They follow Arena.nets rules. Which means arena.net makes makes them however they want. Its called designing a game. Thats how its possible. If arena.net wants them to have 5000 dmg, they have 5000 dmg. Is that so hard for you to understand?

The rules they created say no level above 20! And they broke that rule with enemies!

Look at the game mechanics guide! They put a lot of thought in how to calculate the damage! And they broke their rules there, too!

And I want to know is it possible to get that damage via the game mechanics without cheating? What you describe is cheating in my eyes!

Kishin · Jun 25, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

They're getting that damage legitimately. Its not like the formula is mysteriously changed for aatxe's or any other Underworld monster. They legitimately do that much damage. Is it possibly for a player to hit for 500+ hp damage? With the exception of Grenth's Balance, I don't think so. But that's what gives the aatxe's their challenge. Their damage, -if you are wearing the proper armor- is high, but manageable.

They told you max player level was 20, yes. Never did they say monsters were confined to the same cap. Furthermore, monsters are given levels above the level cap in order to occur players to use some *gasp* strategy in dealing with them.

Also, this doesn't change the fact that a major reason you took so much damage is because your armor -sucked-. Why are you still wearing 30 AL armor at level 20?